Wanna see the equivalent of a million megaton nuke go off in a crowd of professing Christians in 2016 America (especially those inclined to gather at Cruz rallies)?
If so, simply dare to even ask a question like, “Does God really have a genetically identifiable chosen people on earth right now?”
Then follow it up with something like, “And if so, exactly who qualifies?” or “Who’s actually in this group?”
Then watch the incredulous rage build (in some, not all)…and be ready to defend yourself.
The first problem with these questions, from the perspective of a great many professing Christians in America, is that anyone would dare to ask ’em in the first place.
We’re not supposed to think about (and biblically test) whether or not God has a genetically identifiable chosen people here and now on earth.
We’re supposed to assume it.
We’re not supposed to wonder as to how such a group, if it exists, is actually defined in any sort of even semi-detailed manner – which is kind of necessary to have a distinct group in the first place. We’re not supposed to notice, much less be bothered by the fact that you can’t have a distinct group of people without identifying and applying distinct parameters to define who’s in and who’s out of the group in question.
There’s no way around this, and yet, when it comes to the claims of many professing Christians in America pertaining to the identity of “God’s chosen people”, these questions are never asked, much less addressed.
More often than not, they’re not even tolerated.
To even ask these vital questions, much less test them biblically as commanded by God, is to risk being auto-painted and shouted down by professing Christians as anything from an anti-Semite to a heretic.
This thoroughly pagan approach to silencing debate through pre-emptive shaming is something that cannot be allowed to stand.
So let’s ask – and strive to honestly answer – these questions, shall we?
Does God have a chosen people that are defined (or are definable at all) by genetics?
If so, who qualifies for inclusion in the group, and who does not?
What are the parameters?
Where’s the line, if there is one?
And if there isn’t a line, how can the group in question be considered distinct?
If they’re not distinct, how can they even be reliably identified?
Back when I uncritically believed in “God’s chosen people” as certain ethnic/genetic people like those composing much of the modern secular (God-hating) nation state named Israel, I never even thought to ask these questions. And nobody in the churches I grew up in ever brought ’em up either, lemme tell ya.
Now as I reflect and ponder these things, I am ashamed and compelled to repent of my past passive, unthinking embrace (and advocacy) of what sure seems to be a set of very suspicious claims and assumptions being made by many as to the nature of God’s covenant and the identity of His people here on planet Earth in 2016.
While I’m not aiming here to get into any of the various related debates that can (and should) be reasonably, respectfully, and vigorously pursued in light of this topic, I would like to remain focused on the simple questions posed here and ask for answers from my friends, Brothers, and Sisters, who presently hold to the view that God does have a genetically identifiable and physically distinct group here and now on earth as His “chosen people”.
I am not arguing that anyone holding such a view of “God’s chosen people” is somehow inherently not really a Christian. (Please see also: Never forget that apart from God’s grace you and I are complete morons.)
I am simply asking those who hold such a view to define it in some (at least semi-)substantive way.
If my great grandmother was an ethnic Jew, would I be qualified for inclusion in the “God’s chosen people” group?
Why or why not?
And what is the cutoff, if there is one, on the genetic/lineage side?
If the hypothetical great grandmother mentioned above was only half Jewish, would she still be one of “God’s chosen people”?
Would I?
These are anything but trick or silly questions.
They are not peripheral or little things.
They are central.
They go directly to the credibility of claims regarding a genetically/physically identifiable “God’s chosen people” here and now on God’s earth.
Out of love for all people and, above all else, Christ the Lord, I respectfully request your prayerful, thoughtful consideration of these important questions.
Please email, message, or respond to the original blog post with your thoughts.
Please help me (and other readers) to understand what the parameters are for inclusion in a genetically/physically identifiable “God’s chosen people” group here and now in 2016, if you hold to such a view of God’s chosen people.
Thank you for your grace, patience and interest in these things.
Thank you for proving to a watching world that we as Christians really can honestly, vigorously and lovingly (as Christ defines love) test and debate even challenging and cherished subjects like this by His grace, for His glory, and to the eternal benefit of His chosen people.
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As for the genetic aspect, it is funny that you have brought this up as I just watched a program on the genetics aspect of those who have descended from the Cohen (Levitical priesthood) who are living in Africa and various other locations. Professor Tudor Parfitt from University of London specifically studies the dispersed Tribes of the Bible and the genetic issue. Here is the link to the Lemba Tribe and the genetic info he acquired. The video is much more detailed and actually shows the exact genetic markers matches of the DNA studies. The practicing Jews in this bush tribe have DNA from the Cohen lineage of the priests who came there. I truly hope you do take the time to watch the lecture and the video clip that shows the DNA marker report itself. It's a great topic to discuss and I am truly glad that I watched this last week. 🙂
"CLUES IN THE GENES
And you returned later to get DNA samples for a Y-chromosome genetic study?
Yes, [genetic anthropologist] Neil Bradman and I went to the Hadramaut and collected DNA samples over a number of days. I'd already collected large DNA samples of Lemba, and these went back to the lab in London. Once the analysis had been done, it seemed to show that there was something of an overlap, not specifically with Sena but with the general area of the Hadramaut. It looked entirely plausible that the Lemba Y chromosome and the Y chromosome that we collected in the Hadramaut area had similar features.
In addition to that, there was the extraordinary finding of the Cohen modal haplotype. This is the element in the Y chromosome that appears to be a signature element, if you like, for the Cohanim or Jewish priesthood. The fact that we found this marker in such high concentrations in one of the Lemba subclans, the Buba—much higher, incidentally, than the general Jewish population—seemed finally to provide a real, useable link between the Lemba and Jews."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/tudor-parfit…
Here is Professor Parfitt's lecture on the DNA evidence. Mark it at 22 min. for this specifically. The entire watch is excellent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5wCJ8zy_lI
Are you saying that this genetic distinctive marks the difference between those who are God's chosen people and those who are not?
Not mean we should support the Palestinians either.. I prefer loving both sides because they both can be saved by Christ, and repent..
"Does God have a chosen people that are defined (or are definable at all) by genetics?"
In short, no.
Romans 2: 28-29
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
Some ethnic Jews may become Christian. Praise God, He died for them as well as for the gentiles.
But to automatically assume that God will overlook the evil of a nation or people just because they're "ethnically chosen" is stupid. Pure idiotic.
The programming runs deep, Scott…question everything. 😉
PS. A great resource: http://www.realjewnews.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDWUZ6EqWHc
Replacement theology ignores and allegorizes many clear references to national Israel. You have done so here. What you are saying is not any different than what the Roman Catholic Church also says!
Here is what the Lord says, however; 1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; 2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD’S anger come upon you. 3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD’S anger. Zephaniah 2:1-3
Here we have an End Times prophecy, and both the Church and National Israel are present in the passage. Who do you think the "Nation not desired" is? Do you think that's the Church? No, the Church is in verse 3, and this is a pre-Tribulation rapture passage. Israel will be left behind, but God's people will be raptured to Heaven while He brings down judgment on the nation. The point of the judgment is not that He hates them, but He is trying to save them!
Here is another one;
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God. Zechariah 13:8
OK, Mr. Firebreather, Who is in view here? Do you think that God is going to kill off 2/3 of His bride? Do you think He is an abusive husband?
No, this is national Israel. They are being cleansed, as it were, by fire. And the 144,000 witnesses of Revelation are also 100% Hebrews. There will be no Gentiles among them, although there could be some that have a gentile grandmother, perhaps. The tribes of Israel are listed in that book, and specifically links them to these witnesses.
There is no place in Scripture where Christians are named after the tribes of Israel. We are grafted in to the commonwealth of Israel, but we are not Jews.
Even Paul noted that there were Gentile Churches. They did not lose their identity when they joined the Church;
Romans 16:4
Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.
Your post really reveals you to be a strange "believer". Where are your Scripture quotes? Your entire post is merely human reasoning. Why aren't you wielding the Sword of the Spirit?
This is the problem with Reformed Theology; the whole idea is that Rome only needed to be "reformed". The truth is that the Roman Church is not, and never has been Christian, but has been the persecutor of Christians throughout the ages. The reformers should have walked away from everything that Rome stands for, because the Jesus of Rome is NOT the Jesus of the Bible!
Would you mind taking a moment to answer the simple, straightforward questions in the original post?
That'd be great…
In the wilderness wanderings, God killed many thousands of Hebrews who were genetically related to Abraham; but none of which represented the seed or children of Abraham. Guess what being circumcised only according to the flesh earned them- judgement and destruction. BTW, based on mathematical calculations, each one of us has an ancestor which was a member of one, if not all of the twelve tribes of ancient Israel. So what? Did mean their ticket was automatically punched either.
Who Are the Jews in Israel Today? http://kloposmasm.com/2014/08/21/who-are-the-jews…
Who are the Israel of God according to the New Testament? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWq7MrzdEpM
enjoy, https://nicklasarthur.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/go…